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    Amy
  Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:14 pm
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Is it time for it to go?

The problems it was created to solve are no longer around any more. The users that have stayed seem generally less childish (because we're no longer children), and there is a feeling that a lot of discussion happens in PWOYM that, otherwise, would have gone elsewhere.

General Discussion as a board is dead. The quick game related things that might go in game dev discussion go in the thread too, and discussions about video games and life in general. Clearly this is a Bad Thing.

PWOYM was created in 2008 when GamingW was at it's peak - Despain made it to try and replicate their success - and they have subsequently completely skydived off the Internet to the point where they are basically not a site any more. They are dead. Maybe we should take this as a hint.

It doesn't have to be a permanent thing. It doesn't have to be deleted - just closed. Forum Games can stay open, too.

What do you think, and what are your opinions on it? How would the Rec Room closing affect you?


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    StrawberrySmiles
  Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:20 pm
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I'm not sure how it would effect me. Not at all. D: I'd probably keep checking the site, though. Maybe it could encourage us to make all kinds of different topics?

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    Amy
  Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:48 pm
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Instead of having a brief conversation on one thing and then another, we'd have individual threads, that other people can pick up later on and continue the conversation, etc. I think a lot gets lost in Post What's On Your Mind. To begin with we actually banned conversations for this reason, but we majorly lapsed.


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    Jason
  Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:51 pm
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If you close the rec room, or pwoym, I'll leave forever.

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    Amy
  Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:00 pm
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If you leave forever I'll close HBGames >:O


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    Injury
  Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:42 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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The only real reason I frequent the site is for PWOYM, random shit you find and some other minor threads.

OH. And NSFW Butts + BOOBSSss

:jiggly:

I don't have the:

-time
-motivation
-inspiration
-support

I'd want/need to create games. I can see how you'd think the site is slowly dying away as the content base is far from what users who are dedicated to development need.

There are a few people who work hard and continue to get this done. Is this site just an incubator for the dedicated game makers of the future, or lemmings waiting for the plug to be pulled on our once-glorious dreams of game development?

Good questions to ask right about now...

Sorry.

<3HBG


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    StrawberrySmiles
  Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:28 pm
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I think I still have an attachment here because I met Star at this forum. He doesn't make games anymore, and I want to, but doing so by myself saddens me.

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    Amy
  Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:35 pm
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I have no intention to get rid of our non-game-making community! There's far more outside of the Rec Room and PWOYM than just game making. I wouldn't dream of getting rid of even general discussion. Everything that goes on in the Rec Room would still be permissable, it would just be part of the site itself, instead of being limited to one thread as it seems to be currently. The conversations we have in there are lengthy, but not very forum-y. And while we can open threads all over the forums, be it in game dev discussion or Other Entertainment, that PWOYM exists seems to just draw it all into there. Hell, even the remarks such as "PWOYM is killing the site" are posted in PWOYM rather than the suggestions forum.

It's not that it's off-topic from game making, it's just that it's badly lain out and tempts people to stay in the Rec room and nowhere else. If we're gradually becoming less of a game making site then we surely need more active Other-Stuff forums: general discussion, video games, other entertainment, and all the art boards, etc.

(That's not the intention either, we'll always be a game making site, but meh).


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    Amy
  Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:32 pm
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Also, we got rid of the symposium a while back with the expectation that the debates in it would still happen within general discussion. They, generally, never did; debating just died out. Would it be worth bringing the forum back?


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    Injury
  Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:49 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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Is it bad that your not in search results such as "rpg maker", "rpg maker community/ies" etc?

From the business end of this, I would say the site isn't effective at delivering what it was made for...

I wish we had something again, it seems so sad :(


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    coyotecraft
  Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:49 pm
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I like having PWOYM around. It's not a chat room, you don't expect a reply. You don't have the responsibility of carrying on a conversation.
Oh, it's like writing on the bathroom stalls.


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    Amy
  Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:54 pm
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Injury wrote:
Is it bad that your not in search results such as "rpg maker", "rpg maker community/ies" etc?

From the business end of this, I would say the site isn't effective at delivering what it was made for...

I wish we had something again, it seems so sad :(

Probably. I don't know how to fix that - except the Big Thing we keep going on about will sort out our SEO properly so hopefully will boost us up the rankings. Possibly.

We used to be top for "RMXP" but we don't seem to be any more.

Quote:
I like having PWOYM around. It's not a chat room, you don't expect a reply. You don't have the responsibility of carrying on a conversation.
Oh, it's like writing on the bathroom stalls.

It's harmless when that's what it's used for, but it's evolved into the main conversation of the forum. We could have many threads where you can still post without necessarily requiring a response, and the conversation can still go on around. I dunno. I get what you mean, but it's kind of... anti-forum.


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    Jason
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:40 am
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What is this big thing you keep talking about anyway? And how long do we have to wait to see it?

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    Amy
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:18 pm
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I don't want to get everyone's hopes up or reveal things that aren't my place to reveal, but in short we do have plans for all of the problems the site has (both technically and socially), it's just taking some time due to various things.

Any thoughts on bringing back the symposium?


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    Injury
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:52 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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I don't think we need a symposium as much as we need new members who want to create games. It might make more sense to move towards newer game tools, programming languages and game development from an indie stance...

I don't know about the search ranking. You have meta tags that make sense for this site, but your not getting the ranking because of a lack of traffic I'd suppose.

New blood for a new era!


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    aphadeon
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:37 pm
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To answer the original question - I agree with the points made.
However,
I also wholeheartedly believe that ending PWOYM will likely mean the end of hbgames.

I wish we could have more game making related activity, but since the whole indie craze the format for it has changed - a simple forum like this really can't compete with more tailored sites. I do wish, but that's about the jist of it.

Only my opinion, of course.


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    Amy
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:44 pm
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Going through game making discussion, there's a lot of contest threads etc. I remember someone a while back asking for a contest board. Do you think making a contest board (and moving the existing ones there) might encourage people to start their own or link to others, further encouraging game making on the site? (Possibility).


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    Injury
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:09 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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If you offer real incentives and it encourages growth, I'd say yes. A contest board might be too broad to start, but it might also be a good place to post other contests from multiple sites. If more people are tracking this site is the place to find viable contests, then we might see more people coming here asking advice and posting content.

I look at the content and information provided for game development as the reason this site exists...If we don't have that, I don't think we will see growth.

Maybe there should be a group established to shape the direction and growth of the site's future.


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    Xilef
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:53 pm
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I don't think there's enough people who would partake in contests to fill a contest board.


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    Injury
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:05 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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Xilef wrote:
I don't think there's enough people who would partake in contests to fill a contest board.


Very true, but what are you thoughts on a "database" of sorts on contests?

I'm getting very interested in making moves to help this site grow again...I want this place to be around for a while to come!


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    aphadeon
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:07 pm
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I would be interested too, assuming we can restore the titular topic.

Just throwing this out there - if I can win custom artwork for my projects in a contest, i'm entering.

Another idea: a groups system. indiedb is organized around "companies". Letting people declare and proudly wear group names might encourage better... interactions when it comes to game dev.

just a thought.


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    Injury
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:23 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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theory wrote:
I would be interested too, assuming we can restore the titular topic.

Just throwing this out there - if I can win custom artwork for my projects in a contest, i'm entering.

Another idea: a groups system. indiedb is organized around "companies". Letting people declare and proudly wear group names might encourage better... interactions when it comes to game dev.

just a thought.


That is a great idea, and a possible foundation for future developments! No indie studio develops their game without some help, so maybe we can cater to that?

Possible structure would be Game Dev Discussion > I have an idea, need a team! > Start "Company"...

So after a company is started, a game would have to be fleshed out so it would attract attention. There could be a possible rating system involved, so the popularity of an idea or project would garner it more attention, fill the slots with talented people and so on...After slots are filled, progress could be tracked on the companies game page, possible social networking integration...

This will lead into another idea: staff based game testers/quality control, producers, potential distribution whatever.

Example: Company is done with a game, wants to publish it to the HBGames Game Page > Submit to HBG Testers > Work out bugs and get things up to par > Release game > Feature games released, etc

Almost like Steam's Greenlight concept, its ground up indie and community involved.

Just and idea...It's exciting!


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    aphadeon
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:25 pm
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if we had a special system for completed/in progress games, that might help too. somewhere they could be voted on, contributed to, rated, featured, etc. Assuming we retrofitted some existing releases, would help spark things up on the showing off front.


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    Injury
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:34 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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Exactly. There has to be some reward system in place I guess...Contests are great, but an inherit reward system would probably allow people to work towards something. If we had affiliates, possibly an inter-affiliate contest system that would reward players with free advertising...It costs $100 to get a greenlight account from Valve, $25 for Google Play, I don't know for iTunes Store...

As far as intrinsic rewards for developers go...IDK! Possibly fake site credits/money HBG DOLLAS HB$

IDEAS! WE NEED MORE! AND WE NEED TO FOCUS THEM!


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    aphadeon
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:39 pm
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Seeing as we are called "HBGames", it wouldnt be too much of a stretch if our landing was a bit more of a games portal. (rather than the thread format, perhaps adding specifically sized preview images/brief description, in a panel layout?) Spice that up with a "contest of the week" header across the top, and add some better accomodations for collaboration, and I think it would make a real difference.

Of course, the panel layout could still include new resources etc, it would just allow a lot more viewing "at a glance". And I really think a contest of the week would be an excellent move, even if the prizes were negligable (even if it just amounted to a big spot as "Last Weeks Winner" on the landing).


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    Injury
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:48 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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Well I would steal more from Valve's...Separate the content from the creations. Separate the tutorials, programming.

HBG
-News
-HBG Companies
--Companies by Name
--ETCETC
-Published Games
--By Company
--Most Popular
--Latest Release
--Newest Release
-Contests
-Workshop
--Tutorials
---RMXP
---RMVX
---Ruby
---C++
---Java
--Graphics
---3D
---Sub-Content
---2D
----Sub-Content
--Music
---Sub-Content
--ETC (Whatever)
---Sub-Content
---Sub-Content
-Forums
-Chat


Panels would be awesome. Something streamlined and forthright.

I will be honest. I always have thought that the forum's main page is cluttered. The post menu section header is messy as hell.

I want more input on all of this. Especially yours Wyatt!


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    Amy
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:54 pm
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Thank you so much for the ideas and interest guys, it's invaluable.

Some interesting ideas but I think we need to split it into:

- Things we can do now, with a few small changes (adding boards, moving things, changing wording, things we can post and do)
- Things we need to create functionality for (basically how a new HBGames would look).

Nothing to say it all can't be done, just the short term things are easy and quick and will benefit us right this moment, while the more complicated things need time and discussion to get right.


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    Injury
  Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:12 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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So we have a lot of long term ideas, something we can right now...

Remove clutter. Just take out the pseudo "new" content thing. I don't think it matters right now. The front end of the house was a great idea, but it should just be shifted somewhere else. Games of the year is great, just need new games of the year.

Networking with new affiliates would bring some life back in possibly, just something we can start working on now.

What's the deal with the Arcade? Could it be quickly revamped as a game center for HTML5 developers?

What are we good at now? Discussion, internal projects that mostly sponsors work on...


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    Xilef
  Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:21 am
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Injury wrote:
What's the deal with the Arcade? Could it be quickly revamped as a game center for HTML5 developers?

What are we good at now? Discussion, internal projects that mostly sponsors work on...

I think we should get rid of the Arcade and the resources displayed at the top, they just aren't used. And Gamemaker Downloads? Feels like that should be a link to a stickied topic where people can post new engines to be updated onto the first post on approval.

I'd like to see more experimental stuff, things like "I wonder if I can do X with Y while under the influence of Z", the Script Ideas thread I feel captured that essence well, there is a lot of inspiration to be had from just browsing over that.

Wyatt's Netplay 3 thread would have been a great discussion on the shortcomings of Netplay 1 and 2 and where they could have been improved, in fact that thread directly inspired my networking engine which is now used in 3 of my university projects, those kind of threads I find really handy.

I remember some chatter about 3D lighting in RPG Maker going on, that got me interested, even if I consider RPG Maker a lost cause, it was still quite an inspirational discussion that got me experimenting with some secret programming stuff.


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    coyotecraft
  Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:23 pm
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The forum was at it's best, imo, when everyone was creating tools and resources and just generally exploring and experimenting what they could do with rpg maker. Not exactly making games. Plus the average member age was a lot younger then, idk if that's a good excuse. I feel like I have just as much free time, if not more, than when I was a student. But all the unfinished projects have made me cautious of starting new things because I don't want to waste time on something that doesn't go anywhere, you know?

I'd like to create a set of universal resources the be used across any software. Ideally, it would be something anyone could contribute to like the half-kaiser construction project. But I don't want the responsibility of leading a project like that. Plus, if I went at it alone I'd be conflicted about keeping it a free resource or selling it to lazy people who fancy themselves game designers who pay other people to make their game.


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