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    Injury
  Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:23 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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coyotecraft wrote:
Plus, if I went at it alone I'd be conflicted about keeping it a free resource or selling it to lazy people who fancy themselves game designers who pay other people to make their game.


Well if we had a type of credit system, we could offer free resources or charge for certain things. If I made a set of decent backgrounds to use and I wanted some sprites that weren't free, I'd try to sell them and when I made enough credits for the sprites, I'd buy them from someone else...

Is it feasible to create a small framework of economy for the site? Maybe. People sign up, get x credits for free and then have to earn more by making resources, selling games or participating in other events. This can also lead to an alternative ad revenue credit service that would promote other sites, games etc...


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    aphadeon
  Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:35 pm
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Assuming the credits were oriented around a mutual respect of contribution, rather than "money", I would wholeheartedly agree.

That is, I'd charge credits for something not as a way to earn money, but as a way to offer my work to others that share things as well. I'm almost tempted to suggest keeping it separate from "money", as in, no cash-out option. Start with x credits, can earn more by "donating" to support the site, and otherwise its simply a limited resource to be exchanged as more-or-less a sign of respect.

Of course, I understand why some would disagree with this. Its just my 2 cents.

And obviously, should we become a game portal of sorts, oriented around distribution of wares, that wouldn't really work.


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    Injury
  Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:00 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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I agree, and I may be possibly taking it as far as money, but for the most part these credits would act as a mutual support resource. It may be 1 credit for a simple sheet of sprites someone likes, or 20 for a game. Either way, you would be "supporting" a company in that very real sense of buying their game.

The money aspect was more or less for the site itself. We support the games, the developers and so on, but who supports the site? How does a site pay for itself? Ad revenue? Donations? Charity runs? Contest entry fees? Distribution platforms where companies with popular great games get their game published out to another distribution platform under HBG's name, or someone else would pick it up and publish it?

Wyatt is right, we should focus on the here and now. It's easy to speculate what will be good, but what is good at the present?

Once again, we need to form a more formal futures/planning group. These all seem like great ideas, but we need to build it, and to build we need a plan/blueprint.


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    coyotecraft
  Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:47 am
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Making small changes to the site probably won't make a difference unless we get more members. So find ways to make the site more attractive. If I started a resource team, I could advertise on some other art sites and invite people over here to be a base of operations.


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    aphadeon
  Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:10 pm
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We could just slap up a big banner that says "there are approximately 2 girls on the internetz. and they both live here."

hell, that'd rope me in.


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    Amy
  Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:27 pm
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On RPG Maker:

I noticed the rpg maker sections are a bit split up.

Is RPG Maker Scripts better off seperated in the resources section, or should it be a subforum of RPG Maker support?

Perhaps as a board it could be:

RPG Maker (top level)
- Support
- Scripting support
- Tutorials
- Scripts
- Resources (link to resource forum)

Such that the RPG Maker board could then be linked to, and promoted as a Thing. It could perhaps have it's own domain name linking to it to help boost search rankings (if that would help), perhaps rpgmaker.us or something else available.

A sort of RMXP.org within HBGames.org.

My thinking was that coupled with perhaps an RPG Maker special of the eZine, some other articles about the place, maybe a small contest, we could advertise the place about the web and try and draw back what we lost.


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    Injury
  Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:10 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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It's a good idea to start. I think if we had some "fresh" content or at least projects worth looking at featured, it would draw some people in too. I don't know about a subdomain unless it was rpgmaker.hbgames.org, to tie in the site as much as possible. Might be a bit ambitious to go that far, but feature it as a big part of the site.

On that note, I really want to believe that RPG Maker is a good platform to start, but I think we should consider alternatives to it. HBGames shouldn't throw in with a system that doesn't garner as much attention as the alternatives...and the question turns to: Do we have anyone who can support another engine? Provide resources/tutorials/etc?

I'm just happy people are interested in getting things moving again. It's easy to lay under the PWOYM rock and let the sun scorch the Earth...


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    Amy
  Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:03 pm
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If nobody has a problem with it I'd like to move the scripts forum tonight - it can easily be moved back without an issue so it's not permanent or anything - just to demonstrate what it'd be like and such.

Under support:

RPG Maker Support (top level dummy forum)
- RPG Maker Support
- RPG Maker Tutorials
- RPG Maker Scripts
- RPG Maker Scripting Support
- RPG Maker Resources (link)

Subforums:

- RPG Maker Scripts
- - Script Requests
- - Script Archive (Doesn't display unless you click RPG Maker Scripts)


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    Injury
  Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:18 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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Sounds good! Maybe Script Support should go in the sub-forum?


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    Amy
  Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:42 pm
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How's that: viewforum.php?f=309

We can always change it back.

Weirdly the overall forum list feels longer now... but it's actually a couple of boards shorter. o.O

The main thing now though is we have a solid RPG Maker section that we can link to in the header and elsewhere.


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    aphadeon
  Tue Nov 26, 2013 3:02 pm
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I approve.


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    Injury
  Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:29 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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good stuff!


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    Amy
  Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:53 pm
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What do you think to moving all contests to a contests board? (Like we used to have as RMXP.org).

It would be a place for:

- "Official" site-ran contests
- Contests on other sites that we may be interested in
- Contests made by other members for fun


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    coyotecraft
  Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:56 pm
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I'd think it'd collect a lot of dust.


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    noise shaman
  Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:28 pm
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Quote:
PWOYM was created in 2008 when GamingW was at it's peak - Despain made it to try and replicate their success - and they have subsequently completely skydived off the Internet to the point where they are basically not a site any more. They are dead. Maybe we should take this as a hint.


?? actually i made it as a dumb little joke to call teloch a faggot iirc (seems the first post has been edited to say dissonance but hell that might have happened years ago)

was kind of expected to be a random nfg thread that dies after a couple days like all the others

(also gw's peak was way before 2008 imo)

anyway delete the rec room and that shit. i joined here because i didnt have a place to talk about GAMS and rec rooms just taking attention away from that. shitpost in irc like everyone else


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    noise shaman
  Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:44 pm
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actually you can delete a LOT of forums. the userbase is small now. maybe the smallest its ever been. sadly, we're not the largest english-speaking rpg maker forum anymore (blame me if ya want for that :box: ). in fact we're not even close.

delete a LOT of board, bring it down to make 5 or six. get rid of lots of sub-board too.

when you have a smaller userbase and activity is slow, lesser boards is the way to go (i mad a rhyme). it makes the place look busier to see those boards more often updated with new posts. its also less intimidating to new members. what you have now is also MESSY AS FUCK

ditch as many forums and subforums as possible. condense and streamline. take advantage of the fact that we have a smaller community now. maybe, if we grow back up again, we can add some back if there is a demand.

my proposal:

Community Center
-Announcements and Updates
-Introductions
- Feedback
~Archives

(ezine announcements would just go into regular announcements. it's "official" isnt it?)

Game Making
- Game Making Discussion
- Game Making Support
- Completed Games
- Projects in Development
- Tutorials
- Resources
~ Scripts, Graphics, Requests

(ditch the arcade subforum. why is that listed as a subforum? it links to a browser arcade. you have links to that elsewhere. ditch recruitment. we're not so big a forum that we need that as a subforum. if people want to recruit, have them add a few lines about it as part of their actual project thread)

combined a shitload of useless forums and subforums here. if you WANT to support more engines than rpg maker, that's swell! but the userbase isn't large enough to require each engine to have its own forum, let alone its own subforum for tutorials or all that other shit. we have a nice tag system here with sweet icons. encourage that within forums that encompass all programs.) resources is easy. scripts, graphics and requests get subforums. everything else (music, tools, etc) can go in the main resources forum, because they're usually not as often as the other stuff. hell, i might take it a step further and only have "requests" as a subforum and just use tags for everything within the resources forum.

The Other Hand
- General Discussion
- The Arts

(subforums in the arts are dropped. web development is a part of the arts. programming too, unless its specifically for a game, in which case it goes in one of the above forums. entertainment threads (talk abour ur fave game or tv lol) just go into general discussion)

Personal Forums
(w/e i guess this once's needed for dat sweet sponsor money)

congrats i just solved the problem for ya :cheers: :toot: :angel: :cheers: :rock:


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    noise shaman
  Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:04 pm
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or hell. fuck it, go even deeper. move general discussion and the arts into the community center. remove "the other hand" completely. remove the feedback forum. have a feedback thread stickied in the general discussion or the announcements forum and linked to in the mainbar navigation. when an admin has something big to talk about (like this thread maybe), he posts it in general discussion or as an announcement.

Community Center
-Announcements and Updates
-General Discussion
-Introductions
-The Arts

Game Dev
- Projects in Development
~ Completed Games
- Game Making Discussion
- Game Making Support
- Tutorials
- Resources
~ Requests

Personal Forums
- w/e


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    Injury
  Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:24 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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I think your suggestion removes the community factor from this site. As much as it makes sense to condense the site down to the core content, your also taking away the personality of the site, the ability for users to integrate and socialize with each other.


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    noise shaman
  Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:28 pm
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just the opposite. socialization is easier when you don't have to wade through a maze of subforums. the entire goal of the steamlining is an emphasis on the discussion themselves rather than on the organization of those discussions. it also brings the users and the conversations closer—highlighted by the fact that they are physically closer on the page.

simply put, this is a forum and not a website. we want to maximize the appeal of the place as a discussion-based hangout, and the way to do that is to make the conversation immediately accessible. the current main page is a mess. a new user sees it and is just confused/frustrated/intimidated by the amount of boards and subforums.

and then, if he takes the time to understand the unnecessarily-complex structure of the boards, he's turned away when he sees that a lot of them with their "latest post" half a year ago.


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    Amy
  Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:18 pm
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Arcade is a subforum because it technically is a forum, that's how it was coded (so as to have the comment system be posts and whatnot). We could remove it from the board listings though.

I'm against General Discussion showing before game making because we're trying to be a game making site again.

Feedback could be a subforum of announcements.

eZines are separate so we can have the eZine directory.

The arts at current are a clusterfuck and need sorting out. I'm against them all being merged together, simply because they don't need to be, undoing it takes forever, and we'd lose a set place for those things. But that's just my opinions. But as it stands, it's a complete mess. Why is Website Development in with Computer Support? Why is there a separate programming section? (Put computer support in general discussion and merge web dev and programming).

I like that having separate boards for each engine creates a kind of directoried system. It doesn't hurt anything to be this way, and there would be no benefit to a user having everything merged in one board. It's also easier to link to as "RPG Maker", "Game Maker"; I want to have big logos on the homepage linking to them, to show people visiting the first time LOOK WE DO RPG MAKER HERE: LOOK HOW GOOD IT IS. I don't think the extra pixels harm anything.

Merging say, RPG Maker tutorials with Game Maker tutorials does nothing but save vertical space on the forum listing.

Video Games need their own section.

The Rec Room is unnecessary when General Discussion is so dead. Rec Room content could just go in General Discussion, with PWOYM in there as a place for unworthy quick content.


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    Jumping Jack Flash
  Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:55 pm
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Feedback looks better as a sub forum. I think games are the main part of the site and could be merge with Announcements and Introductions so there would be four topics in the first bit. So,

Announcements
Introductions
Completed Games - Projects in Discussion as a sub topic

Game Making Support
RPG Maker Support
Construct Support
Game Maker Support

Game Making Discussion
Game Making Resources

General Discussion
Artwork And Programming
Video Games
Other Entertanent


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    noise shaman
  Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:59 pm
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Princess Amy wrote:
I want to have big logos on the homepage linking to them, to show people visiting the first time LOOK WE DO RPG MAKER HERE: LOOK HOW GOOD IT IS. I don't think the extra pixels harm anything.


there's nothing like this? if you're talking about a major rehaul to the design of the site (which i am 100% in favor of because this place is ugly as FUCK) then a lot of my suggestions probably don't make sense. my suggestions were based on the current forum layout which is cluttered as fuck and seriously off-putting to someone who happens to come across the page.

like the portal (portals for forums themselves are ugly as fuck and a shitty frontpage. and mad outdated. what you want is a blog that is regularly updated with content (its really not much different if you think about it other than the way its presented)) is an ugly mess.

in fact nearly everything about this place is outdated. you do need a major rehaul if you dont want the place to continue in the direction that its going.

also here's a suggestion for removing the indimitating clutter from the forum directory: remove forum descriptions. The forum titles themselves should be enough. thesis: make this shit CLEANER


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    noise shaman
  Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:08 am
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Quote:
Completed Games - Projects in Discussion as a sub topic


other way around if you want to use subforums at all.

games that are currently in the process of being developed leads to more conversation. more back-and forth comes from feedback.

the big reason i like merging the support forums is because there are much larger places (official forums!) for all of these products with better support teams. people aren't coming here for engine support. it's an added bonus.

WHY would people come here, then? right now, there's not much of an aswer for that. most of the people here come here from habit. they come here for that fucking pyoym thread.

we want a focus on something, and maybe serious project critique is that thing. right now, this forum is ALL OVER THE PLACE. you need a fucking PURPOSE for this site. hone in one thing, one DRAW, that this site does better than any others, and build around that.


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    Amy
  Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:18 am
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Forum descriptions can be turned on and off via a link beneath the personal forums category. It'd be easy to just flip a switch and have it off by default and turn-on-able if that's the general consensus.

Quote:
there's nothing like this?

I can't do anything 'til my laptop comes, but what I want is the first thing the user to see (within the portal) to be three images in a row, of the logos of RPG Maker, Game maker, Construct 2, linking to these:

viewforum.php?f=309

So everything's self contained for that maker. Easy to find support, easy to find anything for that maker.

As for big changes to the looks and such there ARE big plans, but they're taking some time to come about, so anything now is just temporary but how temporary is uncertain. We can clean things up, and make it a better place for right now, but there are bigger things going on that will make it all redundant.

And if we're going to work together to make the site look better, you're going to have to be a little less of an ass about it, sorry. I can take criticism, but you gotta appreciate how it feels to hear the stuff you made is ugly as fuck especially when there's been no real feedback for ages when and since it was developed. I can work with "this would look better if it was -> here", but not general "ugh it's fucking ugly".


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    noise shaman
  Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:23 am
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Princess Amy wrote:
I can work with "this would look better if it was -> here", but not general "ugh it's fucking ugly".


what were my last 5 posts


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    coyotecraft
  Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:18 am
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Forums just aren't the trend right now. They are only good for support; and rpg maker has been around long enough that any questions will have been asked a hundred times before on any forum.

Blogs are better for development because people can comment anonymously or without signing up and can subscribe to feeds.

Amy, you already said it once that members ARE the forum. I personally prefer this small collective of people who know each other.


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    noise shaman
  Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:38 pm
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yeah man a blog hub for rpgmaker projects would be really cool


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    Amy
  Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:01 pm
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Already covered in future plans, but any implementation/styling suggestions are more than welcome :).


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    Amy
  Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:56 pm
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What are your thoughts on an "Extending RPG Maker" section, within the RPG Maker section? There are a bunch of projects in the Programming boards, more than enough to fill a board, that would fit this genre, but that don't really get much exposure as they're hidden away. Things like custom game.exes, utilities for managing the database, etc.


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    Juan J. Sánchez
  Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:50 am
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Injury wrote:
The only real reason I frequent the site is for PWOYM, random shit you find and some other minor threads.


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