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    LaDestitute
  Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:34 am
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Also, it's a mod based on Spelunky and I'm pretty close to the first stable release (tomorrow or tonight, assuming the fiveish things I have to finish is the only todo list I have, assuming nothing unexpected pops up like bugs)


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    coyotecraft
  Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:41 am
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I've been anticipating your announcement, monkey. Because I had a dream where you reinvented Sven's character by giving him sunglasses and making him out to be something like poochie (see: the simpsons) or rad talkn wolfthorn (see: old spice commercial )
So in my dream I was convincing myself it was time to give up that fangame because I didn't want anything to do with the character anymore. Lol.

I'm working on it right now. I'm trying to marry the story's narrative beats with visual metaphors. Like when a character is faced with an ultimatum, they're infront of a literal giant fork in the road. Sounds easy, right? Problem is that a short story doesn't have that many beats. So the super mario land world map I invisioned only has like 2 nodes. I'd prefer 5 or 6. And really, this map only exists to give the player a sense of progression. Like, playing bejeweled stars, every stage is a star in a superficial constellation. Sven is interacting with dream characters, but not the environment,. Honestly he could stand still and let the projections he "fights" come to him.
Working in reverse, to add a story beat based on some relevant imagery is just as challenging. Like a gingerbread house in a candyland is appropriate, but I'm asking myself "what's the parallel? "


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    BizarreMonkey
  Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:49 pm
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coyotecraft wrote:
I've been anticipating your announcement, monkey. Because I had a dream where you reinvented Sven's character by giving him sunglasses and making him out to be something like poochie (see: the simpsons) or rad talkn wolfthorn (see: old spice commercial )
So in my dream I was convincing myself it was time to give up that fangame because I didn't want anything to do with the character anymore. Lol.
Well I mean that's pretty much Pep. He ever wore shades in an old cinematic. But unlike Poochie who was developed by senile old fucks who thought they knew what appealed to kids, Pep is designed, acted and written by a kid- me, because I may be legally 31 but mentally im like a teenager at most.

A pair of shades about to land elegantly over Pep's eyes- making him feel slightly more cool as he and his accomplice approach the sty, 2101 (Deprecated)
Image

If I did make Sven like that it would entirely kill the brother to brother dynamic, where one's a skittish energetic smartass and one is calm reserved and super smart but tries not to slow his other down.

It's not as if Sven can't do fighting, he usually does so at the cost of injury though- like in PFC this is shown a lot through show, don't tell. Them arriving at the citadel was the most obvious showing of Sven's ability to fight, several gravestone markers were around him specifically, and he was clenching a thankfully minor bullet wound that he said he'll shrugg off. It likely just skipped through the fabric on his coat and a bit of skin.

Sven HATES fighting though, and will only do it in lieu of words when words will no longer reach those who oppose what he loves and in likewise- to help out his family and respect his father's legacy. Like even in the really COOL THING HE DID in PFC, where he essentially gave Pep a chance at freeing the people, he didn't have to be violent, he subtly gave Nola some directions through ear-twitches, that Nola obeyed, and then when asked she passed it to him. All he did was apply cigaratte lighter to dark stone tablet.

Sven is also shown to like honesty, as he calls out both his brother and his mother when he knows they are lying. Two examples are obvious when Nola first meets the reds.

On note of the announcements anticipation, I'm glad you were looking forward to it, it was a lot of work. Three trailers and a pre-recording playing to a silent live action recording in a day or two is OOF. I was awake for 38 hours and yes it was all on me wanting to get that all done..

coyotecraft wrote:
I'm working on it right now. I'm trying to marry the story's narrative beats with visual metaphors. Like when a character is faced with an ultimatum, they're infront of a literal giant fork in the road. Sounds easy, right? Problem is that a short story doesn't have that many beats. So the super mario land world map I invisioned only has like 2 nodes. I'd prefer 5 or 6. And really, this map only exists to give the player a sense of progression. Like, playing bejeweled stars, every stage is a star in a superficial constellation. Sven is interacting with dream characters, but not the environment,. Honestly he could stand still and let the projections he "fights" come to him.
Working in reverse, to add a story beat based on some relevant imagery is just as challenging. Like a gingerbread house in a candyland is appropriate, but I'm asking myself "what's the parallel? "
The main thing I do is just "don't overthink it unless its a part of the mechanical or plot structure of your game, like the grass roots shit.

A lot of people think I'm a pagemaster who writes these intriquite over-symbolic stories that all tie together, all planned out n stuff

Nah.

I just keep small details vague, like the name of Tiramisa's husband, Tristy's origins (for a long time), the relevance of a witch hunter and what they really are designed to do. Pep even in earlier versions of intel kept his past brief, stating merely that he was a con-artist that ended up ruining Britain for everyone. At that point I had no idea his backstory beyond just that, much like Rolly worked for a mafia in new jersey. Tristy's past was a bit more lucid in places given consideration to her relevance for the plot- but the reveals like that she was an experiment created like most all of the proto-roos we know about is why her kind became so quickly extinct. In her early 20's there were quite a few proto-roo's still around, some which helped her out of an unpleasant situation she'd landed herself in, this includes her girlfriend, the only person she felt genuine love for, who sadly died as a result of a curse Tristy didn't know about until it was too late.

Now with Fantasia we have some very VAGUE insight into where the witch hunters at least began- since Akra Olna is titled as the first, but of their actual powers we don't yet, know, though I have discovered the purpose of a witch hunter, but since that is kind of a big reveal, I'll put it in spoilers.

Content Hidden
The plot behind Tristy's means of being was never made explicit or clear until I worked it out, it also fit with Tristy's consistent lack of evidence supporting she ever had parents at all.

I was stuck for ages on how to make the stakes of Fantasia feel more horrifying than those in Intelligence 314th clash. So I spent time on it- then finally after watching all of gravity falls and some other shit, I saw the solutions immediately. This was when I discovered Dimensional matrix theory] as well.

Also, not progress but I think it's still relevant, here's an idea of all the inspiration that goes into one character, many samples available- Keeping in mind both of these are HECKA dated.
Image
Image
That'll be all from me for now, best o' luck!


Last edited by BizarreMonkey on Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    coyotecraft
  Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:33 pm
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I guess the reason I'm compelled to explore Sven's character is because it feels incomplete and underused. From a strictly archetypal viewpoint, there aren't that many examples in cartoons. I see it more in Anime, but even then, their introspection will be overwritten by secondary emotional drivers. Because without that, they'd just be standing still.

Image

Brock in Pokemon is insightful and supportive, but his defining trait is chasing after Nurse Joy and Officer Jenny. There's something to be said about his rock pokemon. But to be honest, I don't know what Brock's character is like in the recent series.

I think Shikamaru in Naruto is a more completed form of this archetype. Instead of being a satellite character, He managed to be the center of a few episodes. He's insightful and strategic, but also doesn't want to take action unless it's necessary, because "it's troublesome" or "what a drag" - his catchphrase depending on which language you watch it in.

And then there's Ling from FMA:Brotherhood. Without getting too deep into plot analysis, there's an excellent Hanged Man / The Emperor dynamic going on. And he too has an overriding emotional driver, or a literal split personality, when he gives his body over to Greed. I like that.

They all have a kind of endurance and self-sacrificing nature, which I think would be exemplified in Sven as part of the Perseverance resistance and representing the Hanged Man tarot. But that passiveness is also what makes it difficult to put this type of character into a lead role. And because this archetype demonstrates a strong sense of knowing, any self-doubt or identity crisis would be out-of-character. The situations you can put them in aren't that intuitive.

And ofcourse, the challenge only exists because I'm trying to be authentic and aim for a bull's-eye through flaming loops of specifications.


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    BizarreMonkey
  Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:26 am
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coyotecraft wrote:
I guess the reason I'm compelled to explore Sven's character is because it feels incomplete and underused.

And ofcourse, the challenge only exists because I'm trying to be authentic and aim for a bull's-eye through flaming loops of specifications.
You are definitely right about one thing, Sven has not been given much attention, but what you've summed up about him is very correct.

But don't give up hope- Rolly is pretty passive as well, he only fights when his friends depend on him. He enjoys brawling to quite a degree though-

This comic I'll put in a link may help see how Sven handles himself when he gets in trouble.
Pigs and Perpetuity

It also may help to know that Zib Zawowski is a lot of Sven's inspiration.
Image
Sven is only much kinder and a lot less cynical.


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    coyotecraft
  Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:24 am
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I think I've got a pretty strong theory on characterization. It's the nitty gritty stuff of realizing all the pieces as a continuous narrative, with room for gameplay, that gets me.
But you know, looking at other games, I don't see them doing the things that I want to accomplish. With the main character I mean. Usually the main character is a proxy to direct the player's gaze towards other characters and the world. But I guess I want to do the opposite and use the world and other characters to look at the main character.

I've never phrased it like that before. I have no idea how to do that either :p


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    coyotecraft
  Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:26 pm
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I started to put together a disclaimer and other flash cards. I barely typed a sentence when I started getting interrupted.

Edit: I've had this new laptop for over 6 months now and just realizing I don't have any of my fonts. Just basic stuff.


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    LaDestitute
  Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:24 pm
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Since I can't stop working on stuff, been working on a Don't Starve mod for Minecraft now that my other mod's first public release is out:

Config
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Rockyland Biome
Image

Gold Vein Boulders
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Overriding Vanilla Recipes
Image

Changing how logs/saplings
Image


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    Fayte
  Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:23 pm
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love seeing everyone's hard work come to fruition!


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