I've never had symmetric mapping adequately explained to me...I can't see anything in his map that looks especially symmetrical or patterned. Everything else, though, I can understand, especially about using different autotiles. I might also use the other cliff style intermittently for variety, or cliffs in the same style that matched the shadow grass or dirt.

So I marked everything I see wrong with his map, technically. The key word here is what I see. Some others aren't as anal as I am when it comes to these things and I admit I get to anal sometimes as well. Im just showing you how I usually look at maps in general when mapping. o:

Red: Same object makes creates a line.

Yellow: Same size object creates a 45 degree or straight line. Usually with this one, it is the matter of making it farther apart. Its not a big deal when you have the same size object create a straight or 45 degree line, unless the objects are too close in and/or don't have anything significant blacking them.

Green: You have too many of the same objects or same sized objects lumped together. Spread them out.

Blue: Usually when I map, I tend to make sure I am not able to create any equalateral triangles or isoceles. This is me being somewhat anal, but if you actually look, you can see the trianglke it creates. To avoid this, move the object or use a smaller, less bold object. Try to shoot for scalene.

Purple: Me being anal about using too many different types of objects. If I were mapping, I would replace the purple flowers with smaller, purple bush flowers and totally get rid of the red ones. o:

P.S. I meant to use a yellow line instead of a red line on the bottom left corner.

Wow thanks Bacon, I really didn't see those things But for the other things, in an hour or so (when I'm back at the computer with RMXP) I'll remake the map with your things in mind.

Of course there's also the incorrectly used 6-weed on the tree in the top-right, but Bacon found some much more subtle things to pick apart.

Now for I suck at mapping part 2

I have been told that this map need a bit of filling in. However it is supposed to be a cared for lawn so throwing in random weeds won't work. Does anybody have some ideas on what I should add?

put an edge around the grass so it doesn't look like it's sitting on top of the pavement, does the map have a frame at the edges or is this the whole thing?

It has an edge, you just can't see it from the screenshot.

This is a small outpost town. It feel incomplete to me. :/

Well, a door to get in and out might help ;)

It looks fine to me, I think the thing it's really missing is people. You could toss a few manicured bushes here or there to fill up some space; I think the upper left building could really benefit from some filler like that. The most important thing is always playability, though - have you play tested it? Does it feel empty even after adding NPCs? If so, then you need more filler. :) (Also maybe put some trees in those empty spaces at the bottom left and right.)

Well its not done event-wise so I'll post it once I'm done populating it.

How could it have never occurred to me that what was missing was the NPC population.

OK I've added a little filler, but it's still pretty void of NPCs.

Its totally square, symmetrical and generic looking, isnt it?

It's a small outpost town on a plain. It's not supposed to be anything special in that sense.

Were it not a completely man-made environment, I'd work on that.

Yeah, but it's completely symmetrical. I understand the walls being symmetrical, but I'd change the format of the town.

Don't forget, that's only how it looks as a whole - the player probably won't notice as much. (Or they will, in which case this post is moot. :/)

All I'm sayin' is most players can't piece together a map in their heads - that's why they're floored when they finally get a copy of a strategy guide or something that has whole maps in it. They're used to only looking at it one section at a time.

Edit 2: And yes, this is a takeoff from my usual mapping stance.

The symmetry doesn't really look bad. For a town it works as needed and does all the job it needs to do. It's just that if you want the player to think "what an interesting town!", it may be good to have a better layout than making a big rectangle.

Metatron: First off, rules of symmetry tends not to apply to anything many made, as man often looks at symmetry as a basic blueprint to everything man-made. Now of course, more rural areas tend to break these rules because its not hugely populated or whatnot, but that's not the case here, as you have someting more modern. But whatever, enough of that.

What I see to be the issue is the lack of detail. First off, you can make your walls a little more attractive by adding a curve or two to each side.

Another issue I see is the amount of blank space. For example, where the water is. That area is incrediably boring, There is nothing going on there. Add bushes, flowers, grass, anything to add. Actually, if it were my I would cramp your house closer together.

This brings us to the next issue. The outpost is incrediably rural for an outpost. I would suggest making the walls smaller and cramping the houses together to create a small city feel. It would go a long way and would look better overall.

The houses are too small imo. I would add a tile or two up and a tile or two left or right.

To add variation to your town, try changing up the houses. Insted of having the same generic house over and over, add variation to them. There are numerous ways to do this such as: adding/subtracting the chimney, moving the doors and windows around, adding different scenery per house, ect. By doing so, the map will look more eyepleasing. Not only that, everything won't look so generic. Remember, everyone is different, therefore everyone has a different way of decorating. o:

How is it coming along?

I've got some work to do still but I think it's starting to look better.

That is so much of a visual improvement that it almost hurts.

It just *pops* out at you - LOOK AT ME I AM A VILLAGE :D You done well. All I can suggest is do something with that empty bit in front of the entrance (....by in front, I mean above it), and maybe put some trees outside the walls. Though I believe you said it was an outpost on the plains, right? Also maybe a path from the fence to the door. I'm sure there's at least a couple dozen people that regularly enter/exit, right?

I just can't figure out what to do with that empty space you mentioned... it's been driving me crazy the entire time.

In the real world, there are places without anything but grass in them. They're called fields, parks, paddocks, yards, etc. Put some NPCs playing ball or something.

This isn't the real world. Its a videogame made on RpgVX. I seem to come across this all the time or hear this, "well real life has this so that's okay." Listen, realism comes so far in a game. Ultimately, mapping comes down to what looks good and what doesn't look good. Sometimes, you have to break the rules of reality to make a good game, its just how it goes. Having a blank space there may be a realstic view of a park, but in no way does it look good in a game. Again, its good to map realistically but there will come a point in time where it will ultimately come down to being realistic and looking good.

That being said, I suggest you fill those blank spaces you have, especially in the front. First off, I would expect the front of the gates to be more crowded than the back where the gates are. Crops and other trade goods come through the gate, therefore it is human nature to be closest there. Add a trade center or some trading stalls or something. Actually, your town would benefit by getting rid of the shop buildings and making shop stalls or something of the sort. Makes more sense logically and it will help you with that blank space problem. I also suggest addingmore weeds and long grass around the town to add more life to it and make it look better overall.

Ill have a bit of advice, I think it applies to any map building efforts, no matter what tech you are working with. Build one very unique feature, a special landmark that you see nowhere else. It could be a river with a watermill, an imposing gate, a cliff with a bridge you can walk on and under, etc... Then you can build formulaic things around said landmark, and it wont look so bad.

I feel like something key is missing from this map, but I can't put my finger on it. Its supposed to be the outskirts of a ruined city on the plains.

I know whats missing: randomness. you only have one kind of tree and one kind of bushes. add other trees, plants, flower, weeds, paths etc. also use more undulation an add some more ruins. It's just a boring map now really.

Make the paths bigger too, instead of one teeny dribble. Make it clearer.

Before anything is said: I'm using only defaults. Be sure to tear me a new one, I feel I can do better and iI just don't know how.

I'm making some maps for my game, and I just finished designing the first town. (( With the exception of a building I JUST added in.)) And I would like to flesh out the town to some decent quality before moving on.

This said, here is some information on the town:
The town in question is actually a town built in an online game. It is meant to represent spring, so I used a lot of grass,flowers and trees. However, in some parts, I am running low on ideas what to place. Just because this game is being played "online" doesn't mean I want it to lack good mapping or be totally empty. You'll see what I mean...

Also, can anyone point out some good mapping tips/advice/tutorials? I kept searching for some and I kept getting pokemon maps....

...A lot of help that did...

Finally, I don't quiet get this tileset thing yet. I know how to edit them and stuff, but is there anyway to merge them without having to put them together in photoshop?

Here are the current maps I have made:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1395149/map1.PNG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1395149/map2.PNG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1395149/Map3.PNG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1395149/Map4.PNG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1395149/Map5.PNG
Here are the two that I feel are lacking things and have too much negative space.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1395149/Map6.PNG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1395149/Map7.PNG

Hi there Kimicat, welcome to the mapping world of hbgames :)

There's a whole slew of mapping threads here - there's mine as well, of course, but I'll warn you that my personal mapping preferences have changed. But more on that later.

I'll just go in order of maps, if you don't mind.

1: There's nothing per se bad about this map, but it's not a terribly interesting one, and it's a bit too random (I think) for being a man-made area. Did you ask yourself beforehand, "What is this tile? How can it be used?" In the street portion you've got a lot of stools just scattered randomly about, and it doesn't quite make sense. The bigger issue I'm seeing, though, is the contrast between the street and the grass. The way you've done it, it looks like it's carpet going to tile. There are two ways around this, one 100% default and one 98% default (so depending on how much you're willing to edit): 1) Use the street autotile and/or the section of tiles in the tileset. It's got raised ridges around it, so it stands out from the grass. 2) Go into the Mountain tileset and take the 8 tiles that make up the outside edge of the grassy plateau. Edit them down slightly and place them into this tileset, and use on Layer 2 to make it look as if the grass is encroaching the street. Which one you choose depends on personal preference as well as the look you're going for. The booths don't make much sense - I can see the street is above them; why would merchants set up in the middle of a field like that?

2:Again, not bad but I don't understand the map. Why are there lights in the middle of a field? What is your goal in this field? For interests' sake, I suggest adding a bit more variation to the ground (use the lighter grass tile, the long grass tiles, etc), but otherwise I just wonder why it seems to be a developed area in the middle of a soccer field.

3: Is it a...park? I suggest adding a bit more visual interest to the grass, again.

4: I like this one, it's visually appealing, but from a gaming standpoint I wonder about its usefulness. How is your game laid out? Is it in single, small maps or is it just one large connecting map? If it's the former, that row of bushes doesn't do much to keep the player limited to exiting in a small area (which it looks like you were going for).

5: Here's another one with that street to grass issue, but the bigger issue is just that it's empty and boring. Why do you need that huge space in the middle? Who would build that? Is it a town square? It's just too empty. If it *is* a town square, I suggest putting tables or something in the street area.

6: Definitely agree, it's too empty. Maybe make some small grassy areas by the houses for increased visual interest/appeal? It just doesn't seem like the map needs to be that big. I think you can shrink it.

7: Definitely scrap this map. Check out my tutorial for this one - Though, yes, small cramped interiors are not the best for an online game, this is just too huge, and I'll assume that this is how you're making other interiors for your game. The floor doesn't need to fill the whole screen! You can use the Ceiling tile to fill in the space.

Thanks a bunch Tindy! I'll keep these things in mind while recreating the maps. Also, I shall read your tutorial over carefully. Thank you so much for the help. I hope to make better looking maps this time around!

I made this map just do adjust to the tileset that I will be using for my game.

Thank you and have a nice day!