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    Amy
  Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:38 pm
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Beginner's Lounge: First Projects


In the near future a new area of the site is coming. The Beginners' Lounge is aimed entirely at people who are new to their respective program (RMXP, for example).

In this section will be the First Projects forum. The aim of this forum is to learn - by posting a link to your project, or information about it - help will be at hand to talk you through the smaller steps that you are unsure of and basically get you making games with the program.

If you feel your project better suits this forum, please post a link to it here, and once the forum is created we will move it for you.

Prospective rules:

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    Velocir_X
  Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:33 pm
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I have a curious question,
what if the so-called "first project" is simply the developer's first released project,
the developer already has experience with the maker, and wishes his "first project" to be outstanding...

Where shall he post then?


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    Amy
  Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:52 pm
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If it's a serious attempt at a game it goes here. The beginners lounge is for those who specifically want to learn from their first game.


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    Firgof Umbra
  Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:00 pm
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I very much approve of this new forum. I think it'll be great for everybody concerned.
:thumbsup:


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    archerRin
  Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:17 pm
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I love the idea of this forum. But Im not sure if my project would be better off there.

Quote:
I have a curious question,
what if the so-called "first project" is simply the developer's first released project,
the developer already has experience with the maker, and wishes his "first project" to be outstanding...

Where shall he post then?


ahh.. i have like 3 weeks of exp with the RM engine but I want my 1st project to be outstanding. I guess its a serious attempt then. ~_~


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    Firgof Umbra
  Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:34 pm
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Mm, I'd say your project is still very much a Beginner's Lounge game. Even if your aspirations are very high (which I am glad they are, that's fantastic) and it's a serious attempt, I'd go to the BL instead of PD. Mainly because you want to learn as much as you can from your first game, project discussion looks to be shucking that and won't be so much about learning how to make games. Unless you're ready to be judged against titles like Star Ruler, which is a very serious title, or some of the other larger and bigger projects.

But beware, we will tell you outright your game sucks, your art sucks, why are you even posting anything around here, your game (or you) isn't ready for project discussion, and you should go to the BL if we think you'd be better served there; sometimes in not quite as nice wording. Don't take us for granted or to bounce ideas off of, please, and we'll get along fine.


Last edited by Firgof Umbra on Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    archerRin
  Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:48 pm
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Firgof Umbra wrote:
Mm, I'd say your project is still very much a Beginner's Lounge game. Even if your aspirations are very high (which I am glad they are, that's fantastic) and it's a serious attempt, I'd go to the BL instead of PD. Mainly because you want to learn as much as you can from your first game, project discussion looks to be shucking that and won't be so much about learning how to make games. Unless you're ready to be judged against titles like Star Ruler, which is a very serious title, or some of the other larger and bigger projects.

Basically, if you feel like you're ready to be judged professionally and open yourself up to criticism in all your facets of design, then I would welcome you to PD. Any serious designer I give my kudos. Designing a serious game takes a lot of effort, energy, and knowledge but you must be ready to take your licks if you're not ready to go professional-level.

A lot of projects in PD I just... can't spend more than five seconds looking at. They're not even a month or four months in development. Heck, we're a year and a couple of months into developing Star Ruler and we just -recently- announced it and started marketing. If you feel like you're up to having people like me judging your title and giving you the hard knocks and not pulling their punches, you should feel more than welcome here. :)

But beware, when I say hard knocks and no pulled punches I do mean we will tell you outright your game sucks, your art sucks, why are you even posting anything around here, and you should go to the BL if we think you'd be better served there; sometimes in not quite as nice wording. Don't take us for granted or to bounce ideas off of, please, and we'll get along fine.



Ok look, out of how many projects are professional, industry standard level in PD anyway? Its mostly indie game makers. So if you say, PD is only for pro level... then like 95%+ of the projects posted here would be moved to BL.


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    Firgof Umbra
  Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:55 pm
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Well, right now a lot of games are still mistakenly posted in PD that don't really belong here anywho. Games who only have the barest minimum of requirements to be in PD or games being done by people who still don't really know what they're doing when they say to themselves 'I'd like to make a game'. Look around and I'm sure you'll see them.

Indie game makers can be professional, industry-standard, very much so. PD I think should be host to people who are serious about making games and are really ready for the criticisms and so forth PD can often bring. We're looking more for 'projects in good development, which have been in development for a while, or are being handled by someone we know is going to carry the game to the end'.

I don't PD should necessarily become 'elitist' and only host "professional grade" stuff. But I do think it should be a bit better focused on providing people less advice on how to make a game and more advice on how their game design sucks or is flawed, or is awesome and should be kept. And currently we're being a bit schizophrenic by switching back and forth between.

I also revised the above post.

I would also like to extend an apology for being perhaps a bit overbearing. When you wrote you had 3 weeks of experience with RM, I can't really say I could put you in any other place other than BL. As you are a beginner. However, if you have prior experience with making games in other engines and so forth the situation changes a bit. It becomes less of a trouble that you don't know how to make a game, only that you're not just yet used to using the RPG Maker engine. In general, if you feel your experience far outweighs your ability to make RM do stuff for you or is sufficient enough that you can find ways around certain eccentricities found in RM than I don't see any problem at all with that sort of person posting their project in PD.


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    archerRin
  Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:14 pm
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Quote:
I don't PD should necessarily become 'elitist' and only host "professional grade" stuff. But I do think it should be a bit better focused on providing people less advice on how to make a game and more advice on how their game design sucks or is flawed, or is awesome and should be kept.

Okay that's a more rational notion. Although I personally would prefer the critiquing feedback in PD rather than people giving advice on how to make a game.


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    MCsephiroth13
  Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:14 pm
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Are you sure this new forum wouldn't degrade a beginner? If I was a beginner and had to post my project there, it would immediately make me feel that my game was inferior and I would almost have no motivation to continue making it. What I'm trying to say is, everybody likes for their games to be as good as everyone else's, but with this new forum, it would be hard for them to imagine that. Maybe it's just me though, but I think it would probably help if it was called something else like "First Project" forum, but the name is probably not the issue.

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    Dalton
  Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:40 pm
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MCsephiroth13 wrote:
Are you sure this new forum wouldn't degrade a beginner? If I was a beginner and had to post my project there, it would immediately make me feel that my game was inferior and I would almost have no motivation to continue making it. What I'm trying to say is, everybody likes for their games to be as good as everyone else's, but with this new forum, it would be hard for them to imagine that. Maybe it's just me though, but I think it would probably help if it was called something else like "First Project" forum, but the name is probably not the issue.


Nobody is forced to post their project there. If they think it is up to it, they can post in PD just like anybody else does.
I think this forum would be a great idea, as people should take their time and learn to use the program. Hell, I am using RMXP for almost three years now and am just starting to make a project I am serious about. If people, were to get helpfull comments from the very beginning, they would become better quite faster I'd assume.
A forum that enforces such behaviour is a right step for me.


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    Zekallinos
  Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:46 am
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Will you let people decide where to post their projects, or will you move some by yourselves (as moderators)? If so, what are the criterias?

Another thing is, doesn't that section risk being ignored?


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    RATED-RKOFRANKLIN
  Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:20 am
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Firgof Umbra wrote:
Mm, I'd say your project is still very much a Beginner's Lounge game. Even if your aspirations are very high (which I am glad they are, that's fantastic) and it's a serious attempt, I'd go to the BL instead of PD. Mainly because you want to learn as much as you can from your first game, project discussion looks to be shucking that and won't be so much about learning how to make games. Unless you're ready to be judged against titles like Star Ruler, which is a very serious title, or some of the other larger and bigger projects.

But beware, we will tell you outright your game sucks, your art sucks, why are you even posting anything around here, your game (or you) isn't ready for project discussion, and you should go to the BL if we think you'd be better served there; sometimes in not quite as nice wording. Don't take us for granted or to bounce ideas off of, please, and we'll get along fine.


In the information above it states comments like "you game sucks" are now allowed.

I have been working with the RPG Maker for about a year. I have VX since this spring. I don't work on it everyday and every week so there are things I'm still learning.

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    silver wind
  Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:55 am
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Sounds like a good way to help beginners and encourage non-harsh criticism. But I agree with zekallinos, there's a chance that 'expert users' will ignore this board, so beginners won't get any good advices, unless they get them from other beginners.


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    So fist
  Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:05 am
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Folks, there isn't going to be a forum re-sort when it opens. We aren't moving preexisting topics anywhere, unless the op thinks it should be there and we concur with that opinion. Having a project in the beginner's lounge is strictly voluntary. The people we want using it are people that are trying to learn how to use the engine and would like more specified support based on their project. Think of it more as an extended support forum with a bit more of a university atmosphere.

Its an attempt to allow beginner's a better learning environment for their first projects, so they can get feedback that will be more useful to their mastering the program. PD at the moment doesn't fill that hole very well. Projects that are obviously by beginners who just cracked open the software often receive very little attention and its pretty rare that they get advice that is helpful for their current level of skill.

Really its not about how long you've spent with the program, its really about how novice you are with it. If you are looking for help on how to do things in your projects its the right place. But like we said before its not an additional hype forum and like concept dev its not a recruiting zone.


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    Zelfouz
  Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:51 pm
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That's a great idea!

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    MCsephiroth13
  Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:13 am
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silver wind wrote:
But I agree with zekallinos, there's a chance that 'expert users' will ignore this board, so beginners won't get any good advices, unless they get them from other beginners.
I'd personally be there all the time. I would have no problem at all helping people out. What did you say!? I'm not an expert!? Eh, whatever, I'm good enough.

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    Akuma209
  Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:52 am
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Well my first game isnt looking so bad its Eternal Freedom ( no one replies on the game here, but on RRR its well known ), and my side project is Final Fantasy Shards of Chaos ( i am all tired of Crystals ) lol


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    Admiral David
  Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:05 am
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yea this is definietly a very good idea, posting in the pd is generally for those that are nearing completion of a game i'd assume, well anyhow i just need some screenshots now

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    Nolund
  Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:56 am
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I think this is a great idea, and I will be very interested in taking part in this.

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    Amy
  Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:25 pm
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Ouch, it's been a while since I made this topic. I'll try and get this out soon, make some more tutorials and whatnot. Sorry for the wait. Hopefully it will all make sense when it's done ~.


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    valdred
  Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:26 pm
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hmm... i have used rpg maker xp for between three and four months, i think i know pretty much all the functions of the program but still, i am currently working on my first serious project now.
should i post it here when it's done?

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    So fist
  Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:30 pm
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you can if you like.


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    MaRkNemesis
  Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:03 pm
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It's a great idea ;)

Well, here it is the link for my project's topic:

Give sugestions, critics, etc. I think the best thing in my project is the story, but I'd like some critics first. ;)

Check it out: http://www.hbgames.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=65446

The topic is a little outdated, so download the demo, synopsys and intro here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FV18H0FF

Cheers!

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    figment68
  Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:10 pm
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Here's my input. viewtopic.php?f=78&t=67997

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    Latros
  Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:37 pm
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Looking for feedback!

viewtopic.php?f=78&t=70654

Will have a 30-60 minute demo uploaded within the next week, as of right now we're bug-testing and adding finishing touches to the introduction to the game :)


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