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Do you like this idea?
Yes 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No 60%  60%  [ 6 ]
Jason for mod. 40%  40%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 10
    Jason
  Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:56 am
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Right, so four things I think we should do, all put together in one brilliant idea that I just thought of...

Step One: Bringing people to our forums
Firstly, and this is a no brainer... advertise on other forums and shit, especially the big official forums and stuff like RPGMakerWeb (The official forums, check out the activity right now... over 200 ACTUAL MEMBERS (Not guests!) on right now) and smaller ones such as RMN... by advertise I mean just make an account there, put a link to us in your signature, and spam like fuck so people can see it... or y'know, make an actual thread and be nice like that, but whatever.

Step Two: Make them create an account if they want to actually see anything
Make it mandatory to have an account if you want to view the forums at all, otherwise you're stuck with the homepage, that'll stop lurkers and fagthieves that just steal resources and probably don't even thank the creators!

Step Three: Make them introduce themselves, and watch over them for a while... make sure they don't do anything stupid
Another mandatory thing, once you've made your account, it takes you straight to the introduction board, you MUST introduce yourself to us, and not just "hi im faguser"... the reason why we could do this, is because if for some devine reason we DO get more members, we could have a sort of "Community Watch", a set of members that, when a new member joins (We'll be informed by their mandatory introductory thread), will check up on them for a set period of time, make sure they're following the "rules" (What rules?) and shit, lol.

---This also fits in with the next step, since these "Community Watch" guys would be checking on them, yeah? And we'd put a limit on how many posts you need to enter the rec room, however, that would mean the new users could just spam the fuck out of a random thread to get enough posts to enter... so they'd be reported to mods who would then issue a warning and remove their posts (Can you edit peoples post counts?) or if not, just a full blown ban, we don't need no shit heads in PROPER threads (I know I'm guilty of being a shit head, but I put my serious face on in serious threads and stuff, lol)

Step Four: Keep them with us... the more they have to post, the more we'll grow on them!
To be able to post in specific boards your post count has to be over a limit, which means you can't just make an account to freely browse the forums and take shit at will as mentioned above, you actually have to get in with the crowd and talk to us, participate and shit, y'know?

I've probably forgot something but I'm tired so meh. What do you think?


--- Or we can just discuss how to make it better, screw my ideas I've realised they're pretty bad after some thought, lol.

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Last edited by Jason on Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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    StrawberrySmiles
  Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:20 am
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You know Jason, I think these are some pretty good ideas.

I think with some tweaking we could make this work, or something similar. Hmmm...

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    Glitchfinder
  Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:14 am
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Step two is why so much content was lost when rmxp.net went offline. The resources all required logging in, and web bots couldn't see them. That wasn't true for the full history of the site, but it was true for long enough to lose things.

Step three sounds mildly intimidating and rather invasive. I'd rather just moderate and deal with issues, instead of requiring an introduction and such. Step four seems somewhat counter-intuitive, and reminds me heavily of the old official Nintendo forums. They had user ranks based largely on post count (and activity, but post count was the hardest to get), and that heavily encouraged very spammy activity.

I would much rather reward contribution and encourage community, instead of requiring contribution for access to parts of the site. We've already got the points system, which creates a mildly competitive atmosphere in terms of contribution. If we can add other ways to reward people, that would likely help increase activity as well. I've already suggested things like the "X of the month" idea, which would be treated in a similar way to DeviantART's Daily Deviations. We could also do things like leaderboards for the most active threads in a month (with different kinds of activity being posts versus views, and with stickies ignored), and we could likely encourage activity in other ways without forcing logins or locking people out of content. We are not a paysite, so we should not be treating our members the same way a paysite does.

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    Glitchfinder
  Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:17 am
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In short: inspire great work by making sure to show it off, encourage activity through competition, and don't treat our members and viewers poorly just because we want more visible activity. We will always have lurkers, passerby, and drive-by resource runners. There's no way around that. All we'll accomplish by putting that stuff behind an activity threshold is killing ourselves faster.

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    united washcloth express
  Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:37 am
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Honestly, this forum fucked itself during the rebranding.

Nobody comes here now because there is no point.

When this forum rebranded, I suggested using the still decently sized userbase and eZine as a way to draw other users to this site. Sites like Tigsource and ones for OpenUnreal have no reason to post here when they could get far better feedback from their own forums. Free advertisement to a large userbase would draw them to post a game thread here. Having exclusive content posted to this forum has been a pipedream for a while. The forum should have shifted focus to more of a social hub among sites in order to rebuild the resource database. The lack of solid focus back then has led this site to become a dead, RPG maker focused forum.


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    Xilef
  Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:59 am
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I think losing focus on RPG Maker and broadening the forum scope was the problem, keeping up to date on the latest RM versions would have helped (We stuck on XP and only slightly supported VX?).

At university we were shown how websites succeed when they have a niche audience as new users are more likely to find it on a search engine and are more likely to stick around because that site is the only website that has dogs dressed in clown outfits or something.

To be honest, I think we should take a form similar to Polycount.com, take a look and see what they do, it kind of takes the form of "Our members make amazing art and you can too. Look at how proud we are to have them, only on our website do you see art this good".

But the point of they have no reason to stay here is a big one, you can bring them over and police them to make sure they stay (Which sounds rather...Eh, it would put me off a community), but when they have no reason to come here because site X specialises in what they want they aren't going to stick around.


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    Amy
  Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:23 pm
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What killed .org:

1. RPG Maker in general is dying (discussed in the eZine with graphs)
2. Despain nicking the RMXP.org domain which was our primary source of hits
3. The constant regime changes over the years which always lead to friends and friends-of-friends leaving together
4. The official forums being set up and us being left behind
5. Severe inactivity from the staff immediately following the Construct contest, leading to lack of follow-up campaigns, and general apathy from members who felt they were being overlooked to get newbies into the site
6. A move away from the forums by most of the active users, who still make games, but don't post them or about them any more

How we fix it is a different matter, but:

- Closed sites mean:
> - no google search results due to no crawlers
> - less members coming here because they've leeched a lot (which happens quite a bit)
> - more feeling that the site is a circlejerk and exclusive from outsiders

- Post count based rewards mean:
> - apathy from people who don't post much, which is the majority of people
> - rewards spam over content

When it comes to advertising, I know how it feels to have people spamming links on your site, so I'm less inclined to do it. BUT, normal posting that happens to have signatures is certainly a way forward and something that could be exploited more. But that requires people to do things, and people suck at doing things.


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    Amy
  Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:24 pm
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Quote:
I think losing focus on RPG Maker and broadening the forum scope was the problem, keeping up to date on the latest RM versions would have helped (We stuck on XP and only slightly supported VX?).

Our adamancy that VX was shit, which it was, probably killed a lot of traffic, and led to sites such as VX.net rising (and subsequently, VX Ace sites). These are now being in turn killed off by the official forums though.

We used to be, by a long shot, the most active English RPG Maker site.


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    Injury
  Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:36 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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Maybe we can tailor to the new generation of gamers/game makers and have achievement bars for progress in different areas of development to encourage growth.

Achivements such as:
10 Points - On Your Way!- Submit your first game!
5 Points- It's me, Motzart!- Compose a track!
1 Point- I'm all over- Post once in all forums!

Don't turn the thread into a discussion of what we were and where we went wrong, turn it into an active discussion on how to fix it!

I still think this is a great site, with some loyal members and some talented game makers/content creators

I :heart: HBG!


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    Amy
  Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:36 pm
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Rewarding people for doing things could work (rather than post count). Offering points for reviewing a game, completing a request, etc. (But what are points for?)


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    Injury
  Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:47 pm
Ṱ̻̘o҉̸̴̮̬͉o̹̬̰ M̠͍͍͡a̧̺ǹ͍̝y̢̞̮̯ C̳͚͇̻̬͝o̴̡̲̼͕ͅo̶̢̧̠̫̹̳̬̣̭k̶̻̫̯s̴̰͖̭̟̱̯̀͜
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Well, maybe the points could go towards getting a sponsor ship, getting a private forum, "paying" points to get a certain resource such as a graphic or music track. Unlock secret emoticons, other things. Custom profile images, such as backgrounds, falling snow/hearts/other stuff.

Other people can offer goals as well, like if I got help from a person x ammount of times, I can reward them from points and offer something like a cameo in a game or w/e.

Something to make the points have value. As of now, I don't see our point system doing much more than showing who contributes more to the community.

Thoughts?


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    Jason
  Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:21 pm
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Yeah, didn't think this would sit well with many people after reading what I'd typed (I was tired when I did it, was just putting what came to my head in my words), but I think the idea of it is still there... obviously don't turn this place into Auschwitz, but what I was thinking of was a way to keep new members with us instead of just making accounts then leaving straight away, y'know? It'd need revising a fuck ton and lots of changes would need to be made, but hey, atleast I'm throwing stuff out there... unlike SOME people :box:

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    HiPoyion
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:07 am
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Okay so, I've been here for more than a year now and I can say that, although I feel that saying "this forum is dead" is somewhat denying the current members, the way things are, we aren't getting new members
This forum for me is a hangout with cool people where I can post shit. A lot of the time I sit here just refreshing, hoping for something new.
This forum is dead in terms of new members but I feel like we're slowly getting a little bit of productivity back. I think this forum needs a lot of changing before we start getting new members.
Firstly, I would like to say that we should most likely have a forum for Unity. That would bring in a lot of the unity crowed which would be cool. I also think that we should split the C2 forum into the C2/MMF2 forum.
We need to think about how we use our current forums. We've got RPG Maker, GM and C2 forums, but then everything else is lumped together. There are a lot of other makers.
Perhaps we could change RPG maker forum into the Enterbrain forum so that we can include all of their makers such as IG maker, VX, VXA, XP even the 2000's
I know one or two of them weren't translated to english and that it's most likely illegal to obtain an english copy, but who are we kidding? It's not like Enterbrain really keep a close watch on us, and I'm sure there were lots of old forums that used 2k3 and shit when VX came out.
So it would be:
General Game Making Support
Enterbrain Engines
Construct 2/Multimedia Fusion 2
Game maker
Unity
Something like that?
Anyway, next is the resources forum.
These are fairly fine, but is there a huge need for the Generators and Tools section?
If it gets used a lot, sure but if not then cut it.
We may get a few spammy threads asking about generators or shit, but we can then answer these threads and if it's a new member, make them feel welcome and give them a reason to come back.
[edit]We could even go as far as to make our own name generators or something.[edit]
Okay, the artwork forums might need a little addition. How about we add a 3D models forum? It might not get much activity, but it's worth a shot. Sure it could be put in the artwork forum, but so could Edits & Rips.
The other hand... We'll leave for now. That place is a double edged sword... It keeps members in, but prevents productivity, so lets not go near that.

Now that's all I think needs changing to the forum.
In terms of the homepage, I don't actually go there often. I come straight to http://www.hbgames.org/forums so perhaps we could have it redirect you to the homepage when you first go to the forums? Or something like that.

I somewhat agree with Jasons idea about resources...
I know poaching is never going to not happen but still, we could put better measures in to prevent them. I think limiting could be good, but in moderation. I don't really know how to go about this though...
Perhaps we could have members only resources and "drifters resources."
This would be sorted by a new logo on thread creation + the artists consent.
If they mark their work with the members logo, that work will only be accessible to the members where as if they mark it for drifters, anyone can see it. They have a choice as to whether they allow their work to be poached. This could be bad, everyone could mark their work for members only, however I'm sure I know this forum and its members well enough to know that it won't happen.
I agree with the points/achievements thing.
I think that would be a great. There could be points for recommending someone to the forums too!

I'd like to state at this point, the amount of VX/A resources is shocking. I use(d) primarily VX when I came to this f'rum, and I think the rec room was the only thing that kept me here.
I know the general feel is that VX is shit. And it is shit. But we shouldn't neglect it, cause it does have users. (Well, VXA should have users.)
I don't think there is any way we will be a huge prosperous forum again (I was never part of it when it was prosperous) but we can do things to gain a few members and I really do think that most of what I have said will help.
OH One last thing. Don't spam this forum on other forums. That's horrible. You've seen how we react towards that here. It doesn't work and only gets you a ban + a bad name for whatever your advertising.
Anyway, I think that's all I wanted to say...

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    noise shaman
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:32 am
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your ideas are kinda shit.

forcing people to log in to view content will make them LESS LIKELY to sign up. they'll just figure "oh well not worth the time". and FORCING people to introduce themselves? what if they just want some help with something? that would even further make them think "well this is a big waste of time". and forcing people to post just so they can post? nobody will want that. these ideas will only ensure that we don't get more members.

only idea i ALMOST like is that you said there should be limits before they can post in the rec room. and i only almost like it because we should just get rid of the rec room and the shit associated with it.

potion's idea have more merit because he's thinking about the right kinds of things: a restructuring of the forum itself. but he's coming at it from the exact opposite angle.

BROADENING the site is one of the reasons why it's in this current state. there's no reason for people to come here. the LAST thing that this place should be doing is trying to offer support for a bunch of different programs/engines. each of those things has other places that offer that; and they're bigger and more active and likely morte knowledgable.

what we need to do is NARROW our focus and have a REAL PURPOSE for this place.

the title of the site is hb GAMES. focus on the games. drop the engine support shit and make this a COMMUNITY ABOUT PROJECTS with a strong focus on constructive criticism and discussion about design choices. PROJECTS and RESOURCES, and a sense of community and intelligence. push that stuff; remove all the clutter (sooo many unnecessary boards and child boards, we don't need all those post icons, the massive header at the top of the forums. a fucking rp/level-up system? really?). focus on WHAT IS NECESSARY. CONTENT COMES FIRST. scale down before we can build back up.

Quote:
1. RPG Maker in general is dying (discussed in the eZine with graphs)

rpg maker is more popular now than it has ever been before, thanks to its recent success on steam and the official english language support etc etc.

rpg maker fansites are becoming obsolete though.

Quote:
2. Despain nicking the RMXP.org domain which was our primary source of hits


nigga please that was the least of the things i did to ruin this site ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


Last edited by noise shaman on Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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    Jason
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:40 am
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Maybe so lol, but even if we get rid of the rec room, half the people that we DO have here would just fuck off (Probably you too LOL)

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    HiPoyion
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:41 am
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Perhaps we should get rid of the rec room then ;)
Joking. Plz don't take that away from me!

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    Jason
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:50 am
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I would do anything for HBGames, but I won't do that.

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    Jason
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:59 am
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Dammit des you prick you can't just edit a post like that, now I have to agree with you... cock sucking jewfag.

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    Jason
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:01 am
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noise shaman wrote:
the title of the site is hb GAMES. focus on the games. drop the engine support shit and make this a COMMUNITY ABOUT PROJECTS with a strong focus on constructive criticism and discussion about design choices. PROJECTS and RESOURCES, and a sense of community and intelligence. push that stuff; remove all the clutter (sooo many unnecessary boards and child boards, we don't need all those post icons, the massive header at the top of the forums. a fucking rp/level-up system? really?). focus on WHAT IS NECESSARY. CONTENT COMES FIRST. scale down before we can build back up.


I agree with this 100% to be honest...

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    WeebamNa
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:05 am
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Yeah, there's not really much of a focus anymore. When I joined in 2009 I was learning RPG Maker and remember having a lot of fun downloading some of the great games that were here, like Quintessence I seem to remember the most clearly, but I know I enjoyed several others very much. A simple change would be to add a "Hall of Fame" board with some of the greatest projects that have been posted here. They're all buried in Completed Projects now. Seeing some awesome projects may simply help give some inspiration for more content creation.

As noise said; content like resources and projects need to take a stronger lead, with more critiquing and helping others to improve their games. With all the different engines, you're kind of stretched thin. Every good forum seems to have their own "gurus" that are the super helpful, talented people that help others and post awesome content. There's some great talent here, but I don't know of any Construct gurus, or game maker gurus offhand.

I quit being active when I shifted to making flash games, which I'm sure you all wouldn't mind me posting here, but other forums with a strong focus on flash were simply a better fit. I kept this place bookmarked and honestly mainly just look at 'random shit you find on the internet' because it gives me a laugh every now and then, but that's not going to bring in any new people.

I don't know if I've helped at all considering I can't really think of a good solution, but thought you may like some perspective from a relatively older member that stopped being active.


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    StrawberrySmiles
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:43 am
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Jason wrote:
noise shaman wrote:
the title of the site is hb GAMES. focus on the games. drop the engine support shit and make this a COMMUNITY ABOUT PROJECTS with a strong focus on constructive criticism and discussion about design choices. PROJECTS and RESOURCES, and a sense of community and intelligence. push that stuff; remove all the clutter (sooo many unnecessary boards and child boards, we don't need all those post icons, the massive header at the top of the forums. a fucking rp/level-up system? really?). focus on WHAT IS NECESSARY. CONTENT COMES FIRST. scale down before we can build back up.


I agree with this 100% to be honest...

Me too. o.o

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    HiPoyion
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:55 am
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Melanii wrote:
Jason wrote:
noise shaman wrote:
the title of the site is hb GAMES. focus on the games. drop the engine support shit and make this a COMMUNITY ABOUT PROJECTS with a strong focus on constructive criticism and discussion about design choices. PROJECTS and RESOURCES, and a sense of community and intelligence. push that stuff; remove all the clutter (sooo many unnecessary boards and child boards, we don't need all those post icons, the massive header at the top of the forums. a fucking rp/level-up system? really?). focus on WHAT IS NECESSARY. CONTENT COMES FIRST. scale down before we can build back up.


I agree with this 100% to be honest...

Me too. o.o

Actually this idea is better.
Admins. Member agreement that we should do this! :D
(We should work to minimalise the entire forums!)

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    SleepingDuck
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:11 am
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If I may chime in as an apparently oh-so-rare new member ;), I like the idea of focusing on project feedback! The January Blues contest lured me here with its prizes, but the amazingly nice and constructive feedback I got made me want to stay. It filled me with motivation and resolve to finish that game despite a shortage of time and energy. Knowing that people play your work and like it is what makes game making fun.

Speaking of which: the same goes for music making. Some amazing work is being done in the Music Festival, but many of the actual music threads only have a single reply by yours truly. If you want more active members, get over there and start giving constructive feedback! Even if you don't know much about music making, just post that you listened and something you liked about it (the melody, the rhytm, the ambience, anything!). It's what makes contributing something worthwile!


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    Glitchfinder
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:16 am
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SleepingDuck wrote:
Speaking of which: the same goes for music making. Some amazing work is being done in the Music Festival, but many of the actual music threads only have a single reply by yours truly. If you want more active members, get over there and start giving constructive feedback! Even if you don't know much about music making, just post that you listened and something you liked about it (the melody, the rhytm, the ambience, anything!). It's what makes contributing something worthwile!


I would, but me giving advice about making music would be like an elderly grandparent giving advice about fixing a virus-infested computer. Occasionally right, but utterly uninformed.

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    Amy
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:55 am
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The problem with the idea is that good critique and project discussion aren't something that can just be made so, it requires people to actually do them. And we can already do it. But nobody is. How do we get people to suddenly start posting great feedback? It's not as if anything stops it being posted right now.

I know you hate child boards or some of our content. Deleting them will just wind us up either a salt world clone, or with a mess that cannot then be undone, as has happened so many times in the past. What boards would you have us get rid of, and why?

Scaling down subforums is pointless and not going to work. Merging everything rpg maker into one board is crazy compared to having seperate script, support, tutorial sections. I know you think it would help, but reducing organisation will not help at all. It will just reduce activity in horrendous to navigate areas. Why would anybody use a general board on a fan site over individual boards on a fan site?

Merge rec room and general discussion, but other than that I don't see any value in "scaling down to build up". It isn't going to work.


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    Amy
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:11 am
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Don't get me wrong, I'm all for reshuffles, but that things are organised into sections is neither the problem nor a solution.


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    Amy
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:01 am
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So.

Special Events
These are temporary and only show when something's going on

Community Centre
Announcements and Updates - needed for the homepage
- The eZine - needed
- Site Discussion - needed
Introductions - needed

Games
Completed Games
Projects in Development
- maybe get rid of Recruitment and Classifieds as it isn't used

Game Making Support
General game making support - necessary catch-all
- Tutorials - probably needed to keep it clean
RPG Maker
- RPG Maker Support - needed
- RPG Maker Tutorials - needed
- RPG Maker Scripts - needed
- - Script Requests - keeps the above clean
- RPG Maker scripting support: merge with RPG Maker Support? Scripting isn't suddenly separate from game making just because it's complicated.
- Extending RPG Maker: if this wasn't here, a lot of vital rpg maker topics would be hidden in Programming and not serving anybody.
Game Maker Support: little used
- tutorials: little used
Construct 2 support: little used
- tutorials: little used

Game maker and construct COULD be made subforums of general game making support; merging would probably be pointless and turn organisation into clutter, but could have merits.

Game Making General
Game Making Discussion
- Concept Development: can concepts be discussed in game making discussion?
- Articles: needed so things appear on the homepage
Game Making Resources
- audio resources
- resource requests
- generators and tools: isn't a forum, it's a link. Does it hurt anything being here?

Creativity
Artwork
- music
- edits and rips: WHY is this separate?
- writing: where else would this go?
Programming and web development: where else would this go?

The other hand
General discussion
- computer support: probably unnecessary, it's there for technical reasons following a split. merge with general discussion.
Video Games
Other Entertainment
Rec room: merge with general discussion?
Forum games: subforum of general discussion?

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    Amy
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:03 am
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Big Dumb Guy
From that I got:

1. merge concept development with game dev discussion: it's for discussing concepts, isn't that what game dev discussion should be for?
2. Merge RPG Maker Support and RPG Maker Scripting Support; stop pretending scripting is magic and different, it's game making.
3. Make the little used game making boards subforums of general game making support, and ditch their tutorial boards.
4. Merge edits and rips and artwork.
5. Merge computer support and general discussion.
6. Maybe make video games and other entertainment a little smaller; no sense merging them though.
7. Ditch rec room and move everything to general discussion.
8. Move forum games to a sub of general discussion.


If we want to highlight games we could add screenshots to the forum listings page which is bland and imageless. Take from the homepage.


But besides giving points for reviews and such, we can't force people to suddenly become critique giving machines with regards to game discussion. They have to do that for themselves. It's something that would have to happen naturally, not something we can suddenly "decide to do".


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    Amy
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:08 am
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Big Dumb Guy
And yes, you taking RMXP.org killed us. At the very least you could have given it back after your site failed miserably. Instead it's now lost to a domain parker or w/e. Sorry if I don't hold your opinions in the highest regard fella.


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    noise shaman
  Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:52 pm
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Sewer Rat
Princess Amy wrote:
And yes, you taking RMXP.org killed us. At the very least you could have given it back after your site failed miserably. Instead it's now lost to a domain parker or w/e. Sorry if I don't hold your opinions in the highest regard fella.


your facts seem confused? i never had control of the domain. treg did. i couldn't have given it back. there was a short time where i had an idea for a website but he didn't give me complete control of the domain—all he did was point it my way. and then he just kinda disappeared and everyone stopped caring.


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